Mambo RIP?

[mambocreed]

For those of us new to Mambo, it's fairly apparent that "The World's Greatest CMS" has become a victim of its own success.

The commercial developers who are currently attempting to nickel and dime their way into "Mambo Riches" apparently have zero marketing experience. Everyone is rushing to "cash in" early, and the end result will be a dying market.

Having spent some time on the various forums for the past couple of months, searching for information, it seems like the "core developers" and "commercial developers" are all throwing hissy fits about this, that, or the other.

Phil Taylor quitting the Mambo team, then - in these forums - quitting this forum over someone's complaints about his product...

I'm currently building out about a dozen sites on the Mambo framework - and that's about to end.

Increasingly, "newbies" ask questions on the forums, to which there are no replies - the community seems to be in the midst of some type of "geek war" with various programmers feuding with other programmers, etc.

I really can't tell what's happening - this forum is dead, the official Mambo forum is dead... Any "new" components are being released commercially during the software's infancy...

So hey, take the money and run. When the most basic needs (SEF, Forms, Galleries) are, for the current version of Mambo, either not available, in non-viable beta format, or being sold for a few bucks...

I'll just repeat my warning. Cash in early, enjoy the moment. Respect the market, help it continue to grow, reap the MUCH larger rewards.

But again, given the immaturity level I've been seeing - Mambo Rest in Peace.

[iainshaw]

certainly agree there is a bit of geek fighting on these forums. But RIP? You're having a laugh

Could do with a better gallery for 4.5.2 though

[mamboguy.com]

The official forums are far from dead! Look at them: http://forum.mamboserver.com

..and have you seen the new sites: http://news.mamboserver.com , http://help.mamboserver.com


I can confidently say, that your opinion is noted, but not correct IMHO.

[spacemonkey]

mambocreed,

I'm a little dumbfounded by your comments, as almost everything you say is the absolute opposite of what I have been experiencing.

The community behind Mambo is what makes us so special - more than just a crafty collection of PHP scripts.

Perhaps you may have some personal problems with people in the community, but that is life regardless of what community you are in.

Can't say anything about your snap judgements either, as I think the Mambo community sports some very creative, bright minds that really do make a difference. The official Mambo forums are most definitely not dead, tell that to the webserver that is hosting the site

I'm a core developer for Mambo, and am proud to be a part of this community. Your generalizations are clearly based on individuals, which scientifically has been proven a bogus and failed methodology for assessment.

And I also think you couldn't be more wrong - Mambo is just getting started.

[hyper]

Mambocreed has posted a respectable point of concern that should not deteriorate into a flame war. I'd be interested to see an intelligent and measured response here.

I share Mambocreed's concerns. Mambo has made some respectable gains within the open source/GPL community - this kind of progress has come about through massive community input and support over a period of time.

The petty feuds to which Mambocreed refers are detrimental to the health of these hard-won gains. Personally, I'd like to see developers of commercial features (components, modules, themes, hacks, etc) ally themselves to Miro, not Mambo. Let Miro provide a professional framework and appropriate licensing for the commercial developers (i.e. Phil Taylor et al). But let Mambo remain a completely free project; "by the people, for the people".

Seeing Miro coming back to the scene with commercial support solutions is a more welcome kind of commercial involvement. Whether they're the originators of Mambo or not, their professionalism is immediately obvious. And of course, knowing they're there to back up Mambo when the Brian Connolly's of the world come out of the woodwork is a great comfort. It's also a point of respect that Peter Lamont/Miro have shown restraint and courtesty to the community, despite any sense of propriety they may feel over Mambo.

I'm no expert, but look at a few other examples in the open source community: Red Hat and the Fedora project. JBoss. Numerous others...all successfully maintaining an open source/GPL product (with healthy communities) and at the same time making a healthy profit from commercial added-value products and services.

I think it would be a great idea for Miro to set up and "mentor" a commercial co-operative for developers of commercial third-party features for Mambo. Unfortunately, until that sort of organised separation of the Free and Not-free communities occurs, there will continue to be the sorts of problems that Mambocreed has written about. And so too will the users of Mambo continue to wander off to pastures new. Fortunately Mambo currently enjoys a strong influx of new users, thanks to the publicity of recent awards and PR/marketing efforts. But the problems described above will erode this momentum.

I feel the same way as the original poster, no thanks to disillusionment arising from all of the issues Mambocreed has raised, and also an apparent "rudderless ship" syndrome amongst the Mambo core members. I know the core team has been through a major change process in the last six months, but let's hope the lessons learned have been positive.

I was just getting into Mambo in a big way in 2004 when the forums began blazing about Rejuvinet and then Connolly. There were also fractious and temperamental posts by Phil Taylor. Then Robert Castley suddenly stepped down as project leader and seemed to disappear. Phil Taylor culled an entire support forum on a whim and has recently again demonstrated all too clearly the lack of professionalism that is so detrimental to the continued success of Mambo as an open source leading light.

I have nothing personal against any of the above personalities. But I'm sure some sort of separation of the "open source/GPL" and "commercial" entities within the Mambo community is an important step in the right direction. So if Andrew Eddie and Peter Lamont are reading this, please feel free to add your opinions to the mix. The opinions of commercial third-party developers would also be welcome.

It would be a shame to see people leaving for all the wrong reasons.

Kind regards,
Greg.

[gaby]

Hear Hear spacemonkey

I've been with Mambo since day one. I've tried the Nukes, PostNukes, Xoops, PHPWebSite and more and each time I try one of these solutions I end up coming back to Mambo.

Some specific comments ...

The newbies not being answered is usually more a function of the way the questions are asked.

I keep saying you catch more with sugar than you do with vinegar and yes many newbies enter the forum with zero skills in relation to apache/php/mysql and expect Mambo to work like a desktop application. I've got zip skills in coding and in spite of this have always found this and other forums most helpful and if questions are asked in a positive manner answers do come along. If they don't I've sometimes reworded a new question and get inundated. Wherever possible I usually email/PM newbies with suggestions as to some further reading and sites for them to gain understanding as a starting point. This is usually well received and always in a polite manner.

The other issue is Vbulletin and relates to the search function. Searching for Titles or terms from posts in existance sometimes gives you "nothing". This means that many questions are asked over and over again and yes those who frequent this forum (an other non Mambo forums as well) get a little short or ignore the questions as they've seen them before and figure that search will find the solution but it doesn't.

No matter where you go in life if you look for a negative and want to gripe then you can ... the person or group that never received a complaint never did anything!

• Yes this forum isn't perfect .... there are literally thousands of others the same or worse
• Yes some individuals spit the dummy .... they are not alone and they too are entitled to their view and course of action, as are you.

Your perception is your reality, they have theirs, and I have mine.... Mambo rocks.

In the scheme of things the developers making money is not an issue, as there are 100's of components and modules to use for absolutely zip. I figure that what the commercial guys are asking is cheap compared to my time so I have no grief with that.

As a newby 3 posts joined March 2005 on this forum and the same on forum.mamboserver.com you may be a "lurker" and that's ok ... but given your skills, as indicated by your posts on this forum, I'm wondering why you aren't answering some of the newby questions? <shrug>

It also appears that you too are a victim of what you attest to others .... "given the immaturity level I've been seeing" in your initial post .. if you wish to leave or stay then that's your decision, what every you decide is ok. Good luck in making it.

[pompeyjohn]

Hello all,

I am very new to Mambo. I was drawn to it due to ever increasing frustrations with Scoop. My biggest frustration then was how quiet the community support appeared to be, and how difficult this made it to learn. I found it tough, and I can appreciate how hard it would be for someone with no experience of programming.

Scoop was hardcore though, and I still have no idea what half the code did. My initial impressions are that Mambo is different. It is more community focused, and more encouraging to non programmers. For example just compare the two installation / administration guides.

I feel it is very important that Mambo is made as easy to understand as possible, for everyone. Obviously I am not asking for the programmers to become tutors, however, everyone should repay the teaching they received, and help others.

I know very little about Mambo, where I can I try and help others. It can be hard though, to get help, and to provide the help needed. As pointed out the forums are not easy to search accurately. Perhaps a wiki for common questions and proven solutions?

In the course of the past week I have been trying to build a site. As I said earlier, I am no programmer so it looks quite shabby; www.opensourcemusic.info .... I have asked quite a few questions on numerous scoop forums. Generally I have not received answers, but replies. It's been over a week and I still have no idea how to change the width of some modules so they fit my dynamic template. if someone could tell me, I could tell someone else, and so on...

I really hope mambo does not go the way of Scoop. Both are undoubtedly fine pieces of code, but code for coders; thats going nowhere.

kind regards
John

[mamboguy.com]

As pointed out the forums are not easy to search accurately. Perhaps a wiki for common questions and proven solutions?

FAQ's
Tips & Tricks
Documentation - Installation steps etc etc
Official Forum - Feedback/Suggestions

^ Please see the above links... you may be surprised to note the information they contain.

[mamboguy.com]

As a newby 3 posts joined March 2005 on this forum and the same on forum.mamboserver.com you may be a "lurker" and that's ok ... but given your skills, as indicated by your posts on this forum, I'm wondering why you aren't answering some of the newby questions? <shrug>

Best way to help the newbies.... is to get in there and do it yourself... some of us - unpaid - have 1000's of posts on the official forums..... we are doing exactly what you claim we are not...

[absalom]

I resonate with part of the 'dissent' raised by Mambocreed. However that dissent is tempered with the knowledge of (hopefully) where the roadmap for Mambo is going.

Granted there have been incidents inside the Mambo community regarding transparency, ethics, support and what that entails, and standards for professionalism. Having a background in both technological ethics and standards (i.e. what makes a professional body a professional body?) implemented through web development and design, it seems almost numinous to state that it's the individual's fault that Mambo has the support (or lack of support) credibility that it does. The fact we are having these issues arise repeatedly and fairly consistently does mean there are issues the Mambo community (core/3PD or elsewhere) are not handling correctly.

If you want Mambo to be considered a professional, enterprise-grade CMS to the masses, then obviously those within the community need to recognise just what manner of standards, ethical behaviour, transparency and accountability exists for them if they provide 3PD support to that product. (And yes, I consider Absalom Media in this very light as well, so I'm preaching to myself here too!).

Merely having certifications doesn't address the skills needed for professional development and standards. This is why I'm still a bit cautious as to the value and overall worth of such certifications within the Mambo community. Something else may need to fill the place of certifications when it comes to accountable professional development, which in the end, should be worth more than simply a certification saying you know how to build nice code or templates for Mambo.

Glossing over the fact that there have been a few run-ins between core/3PD developers and what that means in terms of commercial accountability and transparency doesn't mean the issue goes away. It simply means that the issue is being ignored. An example of this sort of thing was the use of SEF Advance (a known commercial 3PD product) as part of the "core" site structure in previous iterations of the Mamboserver.com site. Transparency for advertising the capabilities of the Mambo core should not require a 3PD commercial product on the "core" simply so the "core" looks good to Google and other search engines.

The professionalism, transparency, ethics and accountability needed for Mambo starts here. Where should it end ?