Mambo RIP?

[pompeyjohn]

Originally Posted by mamboguy.com

FAQ's
Tips & Tricks
Documentation - Installation steps etc etc
Official Forum - Feedback/Suggestions

^ Please see the above links... you may be surprised to note the information they contain.

Believe me, I have spent DAYS trawling through them.

[mambocreed]

The main point, again, being:

There seems to be a fairly limited pool of developers interested in the Mambo project.

The majority of these developers have taken their products "commercial", hoping that the success of the project might grant them a windfall of some sort. The end effect is that they're overwhelmed with short-term success, and have no resources in place to deal with any problems that arise.

I don't have any personal problems with any developer - and I never will. If I purchased a commercial program and it failed, or if the developer was unresponsive to a critical bug of some sort - I'd just call my bank and refute the charge. It's just business at that point - and there's nothing personal about business.

What no one seems to respect is that the market isn't stable enough for part-time commercial developers. And if I had no marketing experience, and had an interest in Mambo, I'd probably rush in to make a few bucks, too. Why not?

And the reason WHY NOT is to allow your market to continue to grow.

So do what you like. Sell a product you can't possibly support - get yourself a PSP and the latest version of whatever video game... Have at it.

But if you show a little patience - probably less than 2 years - you'll be able to go out and buy yourself a new house.

I'm all for the people who've worked so hard on this project eventually cashing in - they deserve it. More power to 'em.

Just be VERY careful not to suffocate the poor little baby Mambo with petty cash - and the petty infighting that always results.

If you believe in the project, then why the rush to make money? Just open up a general marketing textbook and read a bit. Probably do you a world of good.

[gaby]

There seems to be a fairly limited pool of developers interested in the Mambo project.

This is a bit of a long bow to draw and there would be many who would take offence at this comment ... I won't however

The strength of Mambo is that there is more than 1 core player (unlike Nuke in it's initial stages), there are not 100's in the core group, and there is some commercial savy (miro) behind the scenes.

So what's the issue?

• There aren't enough developers ... but too many selling commercial code?
• Newbies don't get their every question answered ... but ask questions that show less than basic html expertise and think that Mambo is a turn key web site?
• The forums are dead? ... but with over 50,000 registered members on key Mambo forums may be not?
• Basic needs are either not available, in non-viable beta format ... I run 10 sites with the latest version that collectively run classified ads, customised forms, image galleries, chat, forums, comment on articles, document repositories, e-commerce, multi level registered access, staff directories, business directories, random images, site maps to name a few. I have one site with 100 publishers who have limited computer skills and they have added 5,000 articles and 400 documents to a site in 10 days. So what isn't working ... what's basic and beta that you can't get to work?

For every gripe you have I can find a contrary response.
For every plus I have you will find a negative response.

Aren't people wonderful?

The thing to remember is Mambo isn't a cathedral ... it's a bazzar. And like all bazzars is a constantly evolving entity, people come and go, some succeed commercially others don't, some come to browse others to buy, some just take others give and the majority inbetween. There are some who have more sway than others while some become overawed and leave.

This place isn't about an end sum game - to win someone must loose - it's about a collective growing of knowledge and a respect for others. I know squat about writing php code but I can still help others with their issues, I can modify code somewhat crudely and get things looking and behaving how I like but at other times I ask the dumbest of questions.

Yeah the Mambo community isn't perfect .. what community is?

[mamboguy.com]

Just to add.... Mambo as a package is built in such a way that essentially any php 'coder' can develop products for Mambo. It's simple approach is what makes it so appealing.

[RejuviNET.com]

I'll throw my two cents in here, since I was brought into this "thread" in a negative light.

People have personal things they have to deal with, outside of providing free things to people who do nothing but complain about what they get for free.

I've been jumped on for just about everything in the past 3 years I've been involved with this project. My personal health, marital separation, financial issues that I chose not to share with the public....

I've been banned from the "official" forums because of it, even though I was one of the most active people on the forum. So be it - many people don't know what I have to deal with on a regular basis, as it should be.

And I'm not the only one.... Others have been banned for much less.... this comment will probably get responses from SEVERAL people in this category... But that's not the point....

Yet after all the crap I've taken, and all of the crap other developers and major contributors have taken, we're still here. We're still trying to be contributing members of this community, as dysfunctional as some people would make you believe.

Yes - Phil Taylor left the development team, but he is still committed to helping people with Mambo, and still working on and supporting his components.

Yes - Robert Castley left as the managing director of the open source version of Mambo.... But I'll bet dollars to donuts he wished he were still here - circumstances led otherwise....

Yes - I myself have thought on more than one occasion to just forget about this community and focus on others - even expand my "repertoire" to other CMS packages and doing straight HTML packages. Lord knows I have had more than one opportunity to do so....

Yes - there has been dissention in the ranks - so to speak - but it's to be expected. Robert Castley left, and so has Phil, and a few others since this whole thing called Mambo started.... SO WHAT????

I don't say that as a bad thing....

How many of you have dreaded going to a family function because you don't know how "UNCLE BOB" is going to behave?

And that's what this community is - like it or lump it - a family.

I've taken more than my share of lumps in this community in the past 3 years - and I'm still here. Despite the ridicule, the accusations, and the feeling of being "looked down upon" by people who don't know the real story behind what I've been going through - or any of the other people being chastised in these forums.

BIG DEAL. So what?

Does that mean Mambo will die? NO! And I wish I could express it bigger and better in print.

The bottom line is that everyone involved with this project - developer or user - is human. There's bound to be mistakes. There's bound to be dissention. There's bound to be a "black sheep".

But in the end, there's bound to be a CMS that's better than any available out there - and it's the CMS that has you reading this.

If you're reading this and are still not convinced this is a compassionate community with understanding people - and a very large percentage of those people ready and willing to help you with all things Mambo - then you are in the wrong place.

Who cares about management changes? Fortune-500 companies do it all the time! The fact remains that Mambo is THE ideal CMS for sites large and small, and that's all you need to worry about.

The piddly stuff - it all comes out in the wash, one way or another.

Please - let's end this crap. If you don't like Mambo's direction, then find a CMS that better fits your view of what free software shoud be. I'm sure a Nuke or XOOPS edition will suit you just fine - they don't care what direction they go in, so long as people download the package.

The mere fact that there is a commercial element to Mambo - most of which is done by people who have been here from the start - should tell you the longevity Mambo stands to enjoy. Free software or not.

The mere fact that there are developers determined to make Mambo a standards-compliant CMS when most people just want a site that "looks good" - that speaks VOLUMES about the direction this project is headed.

The mere fact that Mambo has out-done commercial AND open source projects in a number of arenas speaks more than volumes.

Instead of trying to incite dissent in the community - if you feel so strongly about the project, try supporting it.

That's my 2 cents ($50 in Canadian funds....)

[mambocreed]

Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuse me

Like I said, I'm a newbie - commenting on the state of Mambo as I see it. Just one idiot's opinion.

Hell, I think everyone should just go out and try to make as much money as they can, as quick as they can.

I particularly enjoy the rants where the developers scream at their customers who demand support, stating that they're only selling "code". That's cute.

The point again, being -

I have a great deal of respect for our coding gurus. They're wonderful programmers.

My background is in marketing for douchebag Fortune 500 companies.

And my advice is:

If you believe in the product, you (the coding gods) would be much better off allowing the software to mature before going "commercial." Unless I'm wrong here and everyone has quit their day jobs - at which point, you da man!

Otherwise, you're just gonna make some small change, give yourselves a bad name cuz you can't offer support to (yes, you're right) the MORONS who buy your code. Of course, they're morons - if they weren't, they'd be writing it for themselves, no?

So if you wouldn't let a 4 year old throw a tantrum - and, in the process, botch up your code - then if you can't be adults and see it as a business, then for geez sake, stop selling stuff.

Again, I'm a newbie - just commenting on the silliness I've seen on the boards.

It does very much look like the whole project is turning into a big hissy fit. And it would be a shame to see it all go south.

And yeah, I make grand generalizations - "the whole project", "the majority", etc.

But it does generally appear that there are a LOT of commercial components for crap that you'd think would be standard fare... And it's kinda spooky to think that the coders who are still committed to open source development might get jealous of the morons who are jumping the gun...

And that would obviously spell disaster, no?

You guys are awesome. You deserve to profit from all of your work.

But ya might consider (the commercial developers here) that maybe you should read a marketing text - maybe they have an Idiot's Guide - and act accordingly.

Or you can just throw a tantrum and royally f' up what would otherwise be a golden future.

And I am doing my best here to contribute. I'm NOT a coder.

But I do have enough marketing sense to know that things are looking a little f'd up in happy Mambo land. And "standing by" someone who's making an idiot of themselves just cuz they're your "brothers in blue" doesn't help them any.

In my opinion:

A) The market's too young for commercial components. Particularly if a commercial component is the only "viable" component in its category.
B) You can't sell something you can't support
C) The customer (ie the MORON) is always right

So again, do what ya like. But I'm not rustling your feathers - it makes no sense for me to do that. Just trying to do what I can to contribute.

[mambocreed]

I'll sum this up in a different manner - real quick like:

If YOU are a commercial developer, and your commercial component is the BEST solution for what is considered standard fare on other CMS platforms - then...

Consider what would come of Mambo if every other developer took the same stance YOU are taking. And why shouldn't they?

If that doesn't make sense, then I give up.

And to provide an example here - obviously, everyone needs forms of some sort.

A few months ago, I contacted Phil concerning a purchase, and was planning on making the purchase.

Next thing I know, I get an email saying he's left the project and that Phil-A-Form has been discontinued - as there were open source solutions now available.

Now Phil-A-Form has been re-released. After which it may be discontinued again - I guess, depending on what side of the bed the developer wakes up on in the morning?

And I really don't mean to "attack" that one developer. Seems he's closing in on a nervous breakdown anyway.

But, from the view of ye olde casual observer, it looks like:

Phil had a lock on the "form" thing. Everyone needed forms.

Someone created an open source form.

Phil quits the project and shuts down Phil-A-Form.

Since us "non-gods" aren't provided any information on why ANY of this disruption has occurred (we're talked down to like children - "for reasons not to be discussed...") - it just looks like the guy threw a hissy fit cuz someone treaded on his territory.

Hell, tomorrow, the whole team could walk out - who knows? And we'd be told "for reasons that have affected us all deeply, we have decided..."

It's all very cute and everything - but, though I'm sure it's intended to seem "mature" and "above it all", what it actually looks like is the geek version of a bar-room brawl.

Anyway, just my 3 cents. I added a cent, cuz it has so much extra value

[mambosolutions]

when is the market ready in your opinion? where is the bar, the goal the finish line, the signal that mambo is commercial ready in your opinion?

I have been around here for over 2 years now and have seen some changes and i will only say that IMO commercialization has made the project stronger in many aspects. Commercialization draws more better players to the field. More and better options available. brings it on the way of a serious application and also keeps developers interetsed and motivated to stay around longer. Think of it like this, if i can find a way to make some money doing this, chances are I will try hard to think of more and better ideas. Multiply that theory times a whole lot of like minded people worldwide, and that equals a recipe for longevity in my book. Dont put too much pressure or significance on individuals like Phil, it may seem important to you at this moment, but its merely a blip on the timeline.


Refer back to this thread a year from now and I bet you will have a quite different meaning.

Mambo RIP? nahh

mambo is here to stay, you can laugh when your kids make fun about you in 10 years when you say ' I remember when it used to be called Mambo 4.5.2'

[pjdesign]

At last a thread that is about what's happening in the real Mambo world.

I have to fully agree with all of your posts and thoughts mambocreed... i have be shocked and amazed with the lack of 'real world' skills that the mambo team seem to lack now that the heat in the commercial Kitchen has increased.

What do I mean when I say heat ??? well the success of mambo looks to be its own death. Getting mambo to perform (i.e coding) is one side of the story... making it available with clear and professional instructions and business representation .. to the normal punter (who yes is ALWAYS right) is another.

Fro example.... recently a client of mine wanted a shopping cart......did i go for the mambo cart???.. um no..... Why?

1) No support other than a bloated forum and emails.
2) I dont want to be woken at 2m by a client who has noticed their business cart is not working and want it fixed NOW (and of course that is not possible because I have no support)
3) Its bloated and over he top...a flex of coding muscle......BUT FORGETTING THE END USER....the client.
4) I want solutions now when i need them... i dont want to have to live in a forum for answers....

Basically in nut shell Mambo if it wants to survive needs to become MORE than a os novelty. SUPPORT SUPPORT SUPPORT... and PHIL TAYLOR not by you... as your not pro.. your a clever code monkey.... that’s it.


I will show an example.... a number of months a go i purchased mos directory (Phil again). After a few problems and NO response or commitment to support that was promised.. i decided to ring Phil from Australia....I was in luck as he answered the call. Ok so I asked about the promised support and lack of.... he told a typical story that was of his lack of ability to answer the 300+ emails he was getting per day for support.......and he honestly felt that this response was OK?? I then mentioned that if that’s the case... why not spend some money on staff to help answer calls and emails etc??.... (like any pro business would do?..)


I was shocked at this lack of professionalism and support! This guy uses his association to Mambo core to sell his products and then gives NO SUPPORT. I instantly and 100% am passionate that as clever as Phil is... he is not a pro and his intentions are financial nothing more. You get what you pay for and everybody is in this now for the money.... this is mambo.... heck why do you think Miro is back on the scene??? BECAUSE OF MONEY.


Ok... and a majority of key and influential mambo sites .....such as mambohut,( and their 500 sister sites ) are now full of more banners to make money than anything else... a gateway online to catch un suspecting visitors??

ITS A FEEDING GROUND for anyone with half a brain to take full advantage of new comers to this CMS... and its happening WITH OUT ANY SUPPORT ONCE THAT DOLLAR HAS BEEN TRANSFERED.


Ok to conclude...


1)
I think and have done for months now that mambo is rooted....bases on the community seeing dollars........

2)
You get what you pay for and mambo does not back up it commercial components.......no offense but who trusts a cheap component other than a cheap buyer??

3) Money money money....... gee even mambo server now take PAYMENT for services and advertising banners.....


4) Please just let MIRO take it back so we get support while code monkeys dream of a utopia and businesses actually get support and so do their clients.

SOLUTION??? Either be OS or commercial… not both

[pjdesign]

Originally Posted by gaby

This is a bit of a long bow to draw and there would be many who would take offence at this comment ... I won't however

The strength of Mambo is that there is more than 1 core player (unlike Nuke in it's initial stages), there are not 100's in the core group, and there is some commercial savy (miro) behind the scenes.

So what's the issue?

• There aren't enough developers ... but too many selling commercial code?
• Newbies don't get their every question answered ... but ask questions that show less than basic html expertise and think that Mambo is a turn key web site?
• The forums are dead? ... but with over 50,000 registered members on key Mambo forums may be not?
• Basic needs are either not available, in non-viable beta format ... I run 10 sites with the latest version that collectively run classified ads, customised forms, image galleries, chat, forums, comment on articles, document repositories, e-commerce, multi level registered access, staff directories, business directories, random images, site maps to name a few. I have one site with 100 publishers who have limited computer skills and they have added 5,000 articles and 400 documents to a site in 10 days. So what isn't working ... what's basic and beta that you can't get to work?

For every gripe you have I can find a contrary response.
For every plus I have you will find a negative response.

Aren't people wonderful?

The thing to remember is Mambo isn't a cathedral ... it's a bazzar. And like all bazzars is a constantly evolving entity, people come and go, some succeed commercially others don't, some come to browse others to buy, some just take others give and the majority inbetween. There are some who have more sway than others while some become overawed and leave.

This place isn't about an end sum game - to win someone must loose - it's about a collective growing of knowledge and a respect for others. I know squat about writing php code but I can still help others with their issues, I can modify code somewhat crudely and get things looking and behaving how I like but at other times I ask the dumbest of questions.

Yeah the Mambo community isn't perfect .. what community is?

Its not that community you once knew my friend.....and that's the problem.... its not a fun place to be and ponder over the wonder any more... its now commercial and it needs support or it will die.... and become what is was... a geek fest of achievement.